US PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Innovators are coming up with new ideas every  single day... which brings me to my two partners  here for this panel: Jack Ma and Aisa Mijeno.

Aisa is an entrepreneur here in the Philippines  who launched a start-up around a brilliant idea,  which is selling lamps that run on nothing more than saltwater. She's an engineer. She'll have  to explain the physics around this thing.  (laughter from the audience)

And I guess you've heard of Jack (laughter). But  he's not just the founder of Alibaba, a giant in  e-commerce. He also happens to be a leader on  environmental issues like clean water and climate  change.

And part of what we thought would be useful was to have a young, new entrepreneur, a young-at- heart-but-not-as-young large entrepreneur...  (laughter) ... compare notes about why they see this as an opportunity, why they think it is good  in a business sense, as well as good in an enrivonmental sense, and how we collectively can  be supportive and encouraging of the kind of  innovation that they represent. So with that,  we'll begin our discussion. Thank you.

(President Obama takes his place at one of the&n 38 38047 38 14746 0 0 7854 0 0:00:04 0:00:01 0:00:03 7851bsp; seats in the middle of the stage, beside Ma and  Mijeno. He serves as moderator of the panel.)

OBAMA: Let me start with you, Jack.... Is the mic on (Laughter and "Yes" from the audience.)? Yes?  All right.

Jack, I know you've been passionate about the  need to...(Laughter from the audience over  something flashed on the screen behind them). Something's going on here...

SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE: It's good!

OBAMA: Huh? Is it working? (Audience says yes.)

Okay.... (To Jack) I know you've been passionate  about the need to fight climate change. I wanna  get a sense from you why you think it's so  important. I also wanna get a sense of why you think it's so important that business has a role  in this process, and I know that in addition to  the work that you have been doing with non-profits recently, you've also been in conversations with Bill Gates about the potential of really  turbo-charging investment in research  and development around clean energy, and we may  be able to make some announcements about this  sort of mission-innovation in Paris. Give me a  sense of how it looks to you from the vantage  point of one of the biggest and most successful  e-commerce organizations in history.

JACK MA: Thank you, President. Well, it's not the  passion; it's the concern or worry. When I was 12  years old, I went to swim in a lake, and I almost  died in that lake, because the water was much deeper than I thought. About five years ago, I  went to that lake again. The total lake was dry.  And a lot of people have disease (sic).

And the second concern is that young colleagues died of cancer. Twenty years ago, very few people  have heard about the cancer word, but now almost—most—of the families, my friends, they have people with cancers.

So if we've been working so hard... if we work so  hard, and put all the money in the hospital,  buying medicine, it will be a disaster. Why  should we be working? So without a healthy  environment of this earth, no matter how much  money you make, no matter how wonderful you are,  you're in a bad disaster. So it's the concern we  have.

We started six years ago to put 0.3 percent of the money—of the total Alibaba revenue—encouraging, to enable all the young people to  find creative ways to solve the problem. And I think the money is not always enough, but the  money we use try to wake up the people's  consciousness, should know that the climate  change is a problem, they should know, they  should agree that the water is the problem, the  food is in the problem, so that is what we  think... and after doing that, we think -- what  Alibaba believes is, where's the opportunity? The  opportunity always lies in the place where people  worry. If you solve the worry problem, that's the  greatest opportunity you have.

So after five years we finally find that there is  a huge chance... As you said, two weeks ago, Bill  Gates called me, invited me to join forces  together, investing in clean technology. I think  it's a fantastic idea and I think me and the  company believe this is something that we can do  in contribution.

As we say, we are not a big company compared to  50 years ago, we were big. But compared to 50  years later, we are small. But if we do not care  about this earth—we do not care about the  water, food, environment—I think nobody can  survive, whether you're big or small. So this is  the concern, this is the worry I have.

OBAMA: Excellent. Now you mentioned the need for  continuous innovation in this area and that is  why we have Aisa here. And Jack remembers when he  was starting a company. Aisa is sort of in that early stage. But as an engineer by training, you  had an idea that could both do well and do good.  So tell us a little bit about what your idea was.  Tell us about SALt, and what lessons have you  learned as a young entrepreneur in terms of  making an impact.

MIJENO: First of all, let me take this  opportunity to express my deepest appreciation  for allowing me to sit with you, Mr. President,  Mr. Ma, to share our advocacy and vision in SALt,  and of course tackle a more serious matter like  climate change. It's really, truly an honor.

So, my brother and I founded SALt—it's  Sustainable Alternative Lighting—and our main  advocacy is we wanted to address the light inequality gap, first in the Philippines, by  focusing on the people at the bottom of the  pyramid, because it comprises of about 15 to 20  percent of the country's population.

Now, most of these families live on island,  island communities, and they are not connected to  power grids, so they mainly use kerosene and  fuel-based lamps as the main source of lighting,  and we know the danger that kerosene lamps pose—it can cause fire accidents, it emits black  carbon—so that's the main reason why what we want is, we wanted to provide this people with a lighting option that is more cost-effective, that  is more safe, more sustainable, and environment-friendly, by a way of a lantern that uses saline  solution or ocean water as a means, a catalyst to  generate electricity. In turn it will be able to  power up LED and of course power up a USB port  where you can also charge low-power mobile  devices like your phone, which is very essential  in times of emergencies or disaster scenarios.

So that's how we're trying to, of course,  contribute in terms of climate change. We are  starting with the lamp, and what we see, the huge  impact that we'll be able to contribute is when  we try or when we dive into developing like a  large-scale for the technology that we have. Just  imagine if you'll be able to power up a whole  island using saltwater. Our planet is composed of  70 percent saltwater, so that's what we're trying  to aim for.

OBAMA: That's great! (Applause.) Just to be clear, Aisa, so with some saltwater, the  device that you've set up can provide, am I  right, eight hours of lighting?

MEJINO: Yes, eight hours of lighting. And all you  need to do is you just have to replenish the  saltwater solution, and then you have another  eight hours of operating lamp.

OBAMA: And the lamp costs $20? Roughly?

MEJINO: Around $20....

OBAMA: And it will last you for?

MEJINO: There's a consumable inside that you'll  have to change every now and then, so the main  explanation, the main science behind the lamp is  it's a chemical reaction. You're trying to convert chemical reaction into energy. There's  something inside that you have to change, but you  only have to change that [after] six months,  after using the lamp eight hours a day, every  day. And that only costs—the consumable part —around only $3... $2, $3. So you're just going  to sustain the lamp. You just have to spend $6 annually.

OBAMA: Which means that you potentially save  even within a certain amount of time, by saving  enough on kerosene. You've paid for the lamp, and from that point forward, basically, you're  getting a modest amount, but important amount of  electricity that you can use for a variety of purposes.

MEJINO: Yes.

OBAMA: Aisa is a perfect example of what we're seeing in a lot of countries—young  entrepreneurs coming up with leapfrog  technologies. In the same way in portions of Asia  and Africa, the old landline phones never got set  up, people went straight to  mobile and obviously  they're buying stuff from Alibaba on there all  the time.

(Audience laughs.)

But the point is, they didn't have to make some  of the massive infrastructure investments. This is part of the reason why the old idea of development and environmental sustainability, I think, is outdated. It does raise the issue,  though, of how we can do more to support young  entrepreneurs like Aisa, and Jack. You've had the benefit of having been on both sides of the  equation—early entrepreneur scratching and  climbing and getting things done, and then now,  obviously a very successful businessman. How can both government and larger companies be assisting  in creating a climate for innovation that  encourages young entrepreneurs like Aisa?

MA: Government is simple: Just reduce the tax, or  no tax, for these guys.

(Audience laughs.)

OBAMA: There you go!

MA: Well...

OBAMA: You got a lot of cheers from your fellow CEOs.

(Audience laughs.)

MA: Yeah. But I think, I got so excited hearing  the story.... Startup for entrepreneurs is like a  baby, and I have five babies so far. Experienced  father.

OBAMA: Do you love them all equally, or is there?

(Audience laughs.)

MA: Yeah.

OBAMA: Do you have some favorites or you  shouldn't say that?

(Audience laughs.)

MA: I do, I do it all.... Alibaba, Alipay, Taobao. These are all kids that I have.

But one thing, my advice—we just had a discussion at the back office—is that nobody  can help you. We can only help ourselves.  Investors, government, partners: they are all  uncles and aunties. You are the father, you are  the mother of the kid. Don't give up the kid.  Because when we startup, we talk about our kid,  our passion, it all sounds crazy. But you are the  guy taking care of the kids.

But what we do is we're a platform. Our job is to  enable. We sell—on an 11/11 day, we sold $14.5  billion and this year we've got about $500 billion sales in total in our platform. We do not  sell anything, we empower other people to sell.  So our platform is to empower the small  businesses to realize their dreams.

A company like that (gestures at Mijeno)...  we  have a company that is... they have an app that is helping trucks, because the truck logistic that delivers things from this city to that city,  it's full of packs, but when we come back, all empty. So the application is trying to make sure all the truck drivers find the resources. So our  technology and platform is trying to empower this  company, and last year alone, we saved $1.5  billion fuel because of the thing.

So I think using technology in innovative ways,  and other things—big companies... it's  difficult for big companies to keep innovation,  keep up. The innovation is always outside your  company. For us, when we see companies like that,  we're excited, we put the money inside, we use  the tech knowledge, and we also promote them in  our platform is they are environment-friendly.

OBAMA: Nice.... Aisa, what would've been the biggest challenge for you in terms of scaling up. You got a technology, you feel confident it can work?

(To audience) She's won, by the way, a lot of  prizes, gotten a lot of attention, so this is not  like one of those infomercials... (Audience  laughs) ... where you order it and you can't make  the thing work... so...

(To Aisa) But what have  been the biggest challenges and how could both  the public sector and the private sector be more  helpful in term of encouraging young  entrepreneurs like you?

MIJENO: Based on our experience, I guess what we  need here is like a support system, because we  have, we have the passion. If you don't mind me  telling you the backstory of how we started: The  main inspiration of coming up with the  application—the lighting application—was  when we did a personal immersion up in the  mountains of Kalinga. Up there I learned of a  story that because of scarcity of public  transportation, people have to travel down the  mountain and walk six hours just to get kerosene  for their lamps, and they do that every other day.

So, we have the passion. So what we need is a  support system from both the private sector and  the government to, like, mentor us and guide us  how we can scale up the product, the project...  And yes, we also need a lot of support in terms  of funding. That's our main challenge right now.  We're at a critical phase; we're trying to mass produce the lamp, so we're just looking for  someone to fund to get the project moving.

(Obama points at Ma at the end of Mejino's reply.  The audience laughs. Ma points back at Obama, then at Mejino. More laughter and applause.)

OBAMA: I'm just saying.... Serving as a matchmaker here a little bit.

(More laughter.)

But a couple of things.... I know we're running  out of time, but I wanna comment on.... I do think  there's a role for the government to provide tax  incentives for the production of clean energy.  What's interesting is, if you look at solar, for  example, heavy subsidies on the front end, but because of the trend lines in reducing the cost of per BTU coming out of the last several years,  it's exceeding our expectations and the subsidies become less and less necessary.

So early phase, you may need some support, but  over time, less support.

Second area that I think the government has an important role to play—and I think you  wouldn't disagree on this—is, I think, research and development. Most of your  businesses, the people in this audience, you have  an R-and-D budget, but oftentimes it's  commercializing the technology proven, tweaking  it. Where governments can do is hard for  companies to do a front-end, basic research, that  doesn't necessarily have an immediate pay-off,  but will then serve as the laboratory for young  people like Aisa to discover—based on that  basic research —'I've got a new idea and I can  do something.'

That's in fact how the internet came about, in  part—a combination of incredible innovation,  but also some basic government funding that came  at the front-end.

But the thing that I wanna ask you, Jack, sort of  in closing, is whether you think other businesses  you're interacting with and dealing with,  particularly in the APEC countries, feel the same  urgency that you do, or do you think you're still  an early evangelist on this to persuade others a  little bit more?

And the reason I say this is because, I think...  China is an interesting example. Like the earlier  patterns of England and the United States, when  the countries are going rapidly, they're not  paying attention to the environment. As it enters  into middle-income status, suddenly people start looking at cancer rates, they start looking at  the air, the water... and you become more  conscious, 'That's a good value that we have to  prize and care about,' and I'm wondering if you think your fellow business leaders are seeing  that same kind of transition and opportunity in  this region.

MA: Yeah. I think, take China for example. I  think today because of the air in Beijing, the  smogging, it caused tension and the government  and all the business changed a lot in the last  four years. I just came from Beijing three weeks  ago, my throat was painful. We organized what is  called a Paradise Foundation. I invited 45  business leaders in China—all joined, all put  money inside—and we think there are a lot of  things businesses should do.

It's too late to complain whose fault—whether  your fault or my fault, let's solve the problem  together. It's the combination... Combine the  work of the government, private sector,  scientists, and sociologists. We have to work  together.

The thing is how we can work together  efficiently. I believe always you have to keep  the heart inside, but out of the business' way,  because you have to get things done. That's why  scientists can tell us how to do it properly.  Business should tell us how to get things done  efficiently. And the government should have the  good environment and foundation of researching.  And also we need the media's guide to tell the  people how we do it.

I think this area—Asia-Pacific, especially  China—we are taking good actions, but we need  to do it in a way that's really workable. I  bought a big piece of land... The reason I bought  it is not for buying the forest. The reason I  bought it is for the experience of how America  was able to solve the problem in the last  century... Then I want to bring the technology, the know-how, to China, back to this part of  the world.

I think this is an opportunity. It's too late to worry. We have to take action, join together.  This is what we believe.

OBAMA: Excellent... Excellent... And Aisa, the  closing comments. You're about to scale up and  I'm confident you'll be successful. But one of  the most important things you've said, in my  mind, at least, that this starts from the  bottom-up. That whether it's in the Philippines  or in Tanzania, or anywhere in the world, that people who are trying to improve their lives,  that they can't be asked to just stay poor to  solve this problem. They need electricity, they  want transportation, they want the same things  that exist in developed nations.

But what that means is that if we're working at  the grassroots level, seeing what folks need, and  figuring out in an efficient way how to deliver  improved quality of life while being  environmentally sustainable, that's an enormous  opportunity but it starts at looking at  aspirations and hopes of ordinary people. Is that a fair thing to say?

MIJENO: Yes. It's mainly a collaborative effort.  You should not just, like, rely on the  government. Of course, you should also do your  part, both as a citizen of the nation, to help  your people. So like what we're doing -- I'm  focusing on what I'm good at, of course R-and-D,  research and development.

With the help of local incubation program here in  the Philippines, we were able to partner with a  local manufacturing company who's trying to help  us assemble the lamps. We're also in talks, we're  getting so many support from organizations and  foundations to distribute the lamps across the  Philippines. So with all those, it's a  collaborative effort. You have to be open to  partnering and helping out people, especially in  our case, people that do not have access to  electricity. Electricity is a basic need, light is a basic need, and we should be addressing  that.

And before I close, before I get to my closing  remark, I would like to focus on climate change,  coming from an academe background. So, I just  wanted to emphasize that climate change is real.  It's a fact. It's not a myth that scientists  created in order to get funding grants.

(Obama, audience laugh.)

It's real. It's happening now. Just to give you a  simple analogy of what stage we are in in climate  change right now...

Climate change is like cancer. At Stage One, it starts mutating. At Stage Two, you start feeling  the symptoms. If you're self-aware, you go to the  doctor and get treatment.

If you're not aware, you take it for granted and  you go to Stage Three: You start feeling the severe  effects of the symptoms until finally, on Stage Four, you're noticing that your health starts  declining. You get the best oncologist, pay the  best hospital, but it's not working because  everything is too late.

Climate change is like that. Right now, I believe  we are on Stage Two. Stage Two! So...

(Audience reacts.)

OBAMA: I'm just saying, people...

(Audience laughs.)

OBAMA: You don't wanna get to Stage Four.

(More laughter.)

MEJINO: Yes, we don't want to get to Stage Four.

OBAMA: And we have a huge investment in making  sure our children, our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren are able to enjoy prosperity, and that's dependent ultimately on the planet that  accommodates us.

I will say that the lamp you talked about, in  addition to providing light, you can also charge  a cellphone, right?

MEJINO: Yes.

OBAMA: And if people have these lamps, they are  more likely to use their cellphones, which means  they're more likely to use e-commerce, and more  likely to purchase things through Alibaba....

(Audience laughs.)

MA: We'll sell it online.

OBAMA: So I think there's a synergy here.  Everybody, please give Jack and Aisa a big round  of applause!